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I agree we disagree! I like debating, and I like to understand where other people come from. I am also the type of person that will debate with you, knowing you could be right, but wanting to make sure you know your right and why you believe you are.

Funny thing our choices and perspectives...to sit there and deeply look at to why we like our favorite color (for example). I can't tell you why I grew up liking the color blue. Loved deep blue and dark greens. Possibly things affected my thoughts or response to them as a child, but to sit and watch children go after something they like. Babies, though with intellegence growing, does not have the same capabilities to decide things like that. Myself, can not think back and remember making the choice back then that I loved the color blue. To agree with you now though, my favorite color is purple, and that is my choice to have changed from what I liked so much and changed to be now a different color. Can you recall the time, without any influences or instructions (such as the Bible, parents, friends, etc) that you made the comprehended decision to be straight or gay? Can you tell me exactly when you made that critical choice or are straight people straight just because that is what history has programed everyone to think as the normal? Christianity in its form has only been around for just over 2000 years, if we are to look back prior to this period when the church and the form of Christianity has come together to start its prodominate power, what is to say that the normal wasn't something else? So much gets lost in the translation from the original to the next generations. Stories start to add, or delete certain things and other things change depending on the prespective of who is reading, comprehending and translating it. That is why today there is so many versions of the Bible. Yet the "King James" version is directed to be the "closest" interpretation of the original scriptures...it was yet again MAN that has written and translated these books. Rumored of scriptures that have been written by Jesus himself were electively left out of the Bible, the book that praises and worships a man, yet his own gospels were not included??? Where would it be that these scriptures were not included, when these words would have been the most powerful words stated, more than any other man that has written a gospel?

Hate laws are there to protect. Not only are they there to protect the gay community, but there are also hate laws that protect other minority groups which has been retaliated against. I do believe that there are some things nowdays that are way overboard and that should only be common sense no matter who the person is, but there are people that think the old laws don't apply to them, so now we create new laws that both hinder and protect the same. You are right, we do not need more laws concerning this...but with this same statement being stated, christian radicals are attempting to create more laws forbidding the rights of other people in this country, including the gays and other minorities. Marriage is offered only to a specific group of people, and under the "Equal Protection for All" amendment, this in itself is deemed unconstitutional.

To sit and listen to many, many teenagers and young adults (even some older) have to sit there and tell you thier stories on how it was for them to try and be "normal" because that is what everyone wants of them. To have them describe how they are ridiculed for something they have continuously tried to change, and some that have even committed suicide over (again another high law in the Bible that is forbidden) because they would rather be dead than to be hated by people over something they can't change, makes me wonder if this is what God has forseen or is this the plan that God wanted these people to take. What lessons can be learned when someone rathers themselves to be dead than to have to deal with the hate and ridicule that is thrown at them because they have no where else that people can accept them. More teenagers die at the hands of suicide because they are afraid to come out and be hated, than any other reason. Suicide ranks number three in the cause of deaths for those between the ages of 15-24. Suicide ranks second in those that are of college age. There are 4 men that commit suicide to every 1 female. Listed that one in every 10 people are gay. With statistics like this, can you really state that many people want to make the choice to be casted as outsiders and hated against?

Judge not, lest ye be judged (Matthew 7:1), it is not our place to judge the actions or activities of others. That is for God to do at the time of the second coming. Judging others shall only cause you to be guilty in the eyes of God. God's greatest commandment, John 13:34-35 (KJV), "A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another, as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."

Revelations 22:18-21 : "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen." With this ALL things in the Bible shall be followed. Not just one or the other or edited as thou seem fit. The addition or removal of anything in this book, shall be against God's will. If you were determined to conclude one item in the book as fact, all items must be concluded as fact and that all items must be followed to accordingly. (contridictions within the bible, is a whole other subject)


Philippians 4:13 - "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheth me"

I do not want this to become a flame war or cause any resentment so please understand that we just disagree on a few things and we could probably debate all year. I love to debate but not if someone gets offended so let me know if you are ok with debating and not arguing.

I totally agree with you on the fact that God loves us and is able to save us regardless of what is done. There is alot in the post that I do not agree with like people are born gay and that it is to be compared with being a blonde or what color you are. That would suggest that their is a Gay gene or something and scientist have been trying for years to find it and cannot because it does not exist. Blonde or tall does exist and sexual preference gene does not exist because it is made up of choices likes and dislikes according to what you come to believe by the influences around you. As another has put it "No one is born liking blue, enjoying pizza, or collecting baseball cards". It is all choices made up by influence as is your sexual choice. You are however born female or male that is not a choice of influence but sexual prefenence is.

The hate thing is really over-rated. I mean come on the only hate I see is the Homosexual advance hating the fact the bible speaks loudly against it. We need to stop and think there may be a reason God severely hates it. Yes it is true there is a difference between killing someone and telling a lie. Sin does have its various degrees altough all sins are serious.

As one person put it "Homosexual activists have redefined any opposition to homosexuality as 'hate speech.' Laws already criminalize speech that incites violence. It's easy to imagine a scenario in which any incident involving a homosexual can be blamed on people who have publicly opposed homosexual activism." I offers special protection to specific class of people, the legislation "violates the Equal Protection Clause of the U.S. Constitution,". Earlier this year in Sweden, which also has strict hate-crimes laws, a pastor was arrested at his church after he began reading Bible verses condemning homosexuality.

This also means that the laws we have now are not enough and gives special protection to Gay people and crime done against your grandmother will mean far less then a crime done to a gay guy. That is absurd to say one is more important then the other that is exactly what the gay radicals want to happen, it is insane. We do not need more laws:(

Some states have included sexual orientation in their state hate-crimes laws. Last month, California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed into law a bill expanding that state's statute to include not only homosexuals and transgendered people but also people who merely associate with those who are part of a protected class.
This is a rediculous gay radical tactic to stop any opposition from saying anything to protect their kids from making wrong decisions in thier sexual relationships and making sure that they have power over speaking out against it.

This is not the first time this has all happened I guess history repeats itself when we get away from doing what is beneficial for our lives. I just hope America does not reject God as a whole becuase this small crowd is blinding what we know as true freedom and happiness and the joy of the holy spirit. I am far from perfect but I am trying my darndest to make sure I do not throw away a great relationship with the person who made me.

I understand that comment was to illustrate what limits there has to be, but i don't know very many people that woke up one day deciding to be straight or gay. I didn't wake up this morning choosing who I was attracted to, and I don't believe that anyone else, gay or straight, has that same ability. I believe that a group that is effectively pushing into political forces is the churches. As the constitution states now, that there HAS to be a seperation of church and state. This meaning that the church should not have any influence or control over the laws that are or were made. The United States was founded based upon the repression of religious freedom from Great Britian. We were forced to believe something we did not under the Parlimental rule, and as a new nation we founded that everyone has the right to live thier life for themselves for the benefit of the good. How is it that churches now want to make rules and/or laws that will dictacte how someone should live when that was what this country was first trying to oppose.

How does a gay couples relationship affect a straight couples relationship? Does one straight person's relationship affect the way your relationship is handled? I don't believe so. In the long run, we need to stop hating everyone. This same issue came up with interracial marriages and everyone found that it was wrong and that it was immoral, and the same arguements that the churchs and homophobic people are using today, are the same responses that were repeated in history not very long ago with people of different colored skin wanting to be in a relationship together. The church wants everyone to accept God and Jesus as thier personal savoir, but how can people accept someone as thier personal savoir if the people that are trying to open thier eyes up are the same people that are out there hating them? This would be like me stating that all blondes are dumb and therefore should have no positions of power in any form of government. How does the fact that this person is blonde, affect how my life changes? In fact, if gay marriages were allowed, the government would actually see MORE money from the taxes that those couples would have to pay under the "marriage penalty" that straight people now have to pay.

I may not like something, but if it does not affect my way of life, what is to say that it is wrong? We are made in God's image and if gay or straight people were born the way they are, then in turn we shall be accepted in the same form when we reach the pearly gates. If it is stated that God is male, and only those that are in his image, would then have to be male. Same if God was female, would all males be doomed to the burning pits of hell? If God was white, black, asian, arabic....would only that race be allowed in heaven. God made us in his (or her) image and is accepted for the way we are born. Whether that is white, black, gay, straight, smart or dumb....hate is something that controls people on Earth, and is not the path to heaven.

The part about the dog was just an example of "what is the limit?". The point is we make up a constitution for the constitution for the constitution. Physical laws and moral laws both exist for our good. As I stated before I do not go around bashing them its just they are effectively using their money around to push political forces to accept things that undermine and compromise the heterosexual community. The last thing we want to do here is convice homosexuals there is no repercussion for them pushing the flawed lifestyle as if it were normal on to our children and seeding in them the misconception that it is ok and God does not care.

The handwritten Mosaic laws were done away with as Christ fulfilled the law. The part about being stoned is put away by the fulfilling of the law that came from Jesus death. The immutable 10 commandments are eternal laws setup from Gods own heart and will never be done away with. Thou shalt not kill yesterday means the same as thou shalt not kill today as do the other 9 commandments. Will we always follow them in this life, not hardly. That is why Christ took the penalty for us and saved us by grace.

Very Interesting prespective and I respect that. I am not stating it is right or wrong, I am just not going to tell someone else how to live. I would not go and tell a christian group that they HAVE to live thier life a certain way. I don't feel that they should be doing that to other people, no matter if it is thier sexuality, race, or religious preference.

As for the man to marry his dog statement, the part of consent would have to be put into play here. Can your dog talk or write? If they can, I want to meet them, but as for my pets that I have had in the past, none of them would be able to fulfill the consent and contract signing part of that, so I don't know why people even bring this up as an option for them to try? Personally, I find that idea completely sick. That would be like trying to mix the species of dogs and cats together...as far as i know they instinctively know to breed with thier own species...humans should be the same way, whether they do that with the male or female end of that, it is still the same species.

On the side note of the Bible, it states that you should be stoned for wearing a clothing of mixed threads...almost nothing nowdays are made of one type of thread. Or shall my daughter have the right to be sold into slavery. If people want to pick and choose one or two things out of the larger book, what make it wrong that another group can't pick and choose other things to thier liking. I am just baffled at the fact that there are so many different contridictions out there and that people become bias and not want to treat everything else as fair game. To use one as fact, shall remain to use the rest as fact! The only thing I can state for a fact is that God would have wanted us to love each other as we would want to be loved, and that denying any person the right to love someone else, would be going against the main idea of what God stands for.