GAYS Vs. STRAIGTS

I THINK THAT EVERY ONE SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO LIVE ANYWAY THEY WANT TO LIVE. ITS A NEW GENERATION.

i Agree with you completely theres so many people out in the world scared of what their family might think living a life thats picture perfect on the outside but to them their just putting on an act for others.Its not fair to them that they have to live like that. They say that aids is highest between gay couples, but thats because theres no sex education for them in schools.In the church they say that you will go to hell for being like that and they wonder why people kill themselves. Their brought to think that its wrong and that its nasty but as long as they protect themselves there should be no problem with it.

I think that as long as your happy it doesn't matter.

I THINK THAT AS LONG AS YOUR RESPECTFUL TO EACH OTHER AND YOU MAKE EACH OTHER HAPPY THAN YOU WILL LIVE A FULL HAPPY LIFE MANY OLDER GENERATIONS ARE STRONGLY AGAINST IT HOWEVER CHANGE IS INEVITABLE--RIGHT!!!

I find it interesting how people think on subjects like this...as in one of the other posts from this room from someone that said that if your gay, that is fine but dont hit on them....some guys find that creepy, some people find it flattering but say no thanks, im not that way. If it does not affect your life, then I don't see why people have to be bothered by it. This can include everything from christianity and religion, sexual orientation, to inter-racial relationships. I may choose to date someone that you may not choose to, that does not affect your life, so why should it bother you? On the note of this subject, I would like to broaden the horizon a little bit and discuss same-sex marriage in here. Below is a paper that was written and would like to see what people's opinion is on how it was read.

[center]"Church and State" - Versus - "Ideals of Marriage"

[left][i]Something that has been pondering in my mind the past few weeks and now just the time to process the thoughts into the actual paper form instead of the mundane argument that keeps my mind busy at work. The main reason taht religious groups are against the idea of "Same-Sexed" Marriage is for the word Marriage. These groups believe that the word marriage is defined as the union of one man and one woman. In this opinion the ability to allow same-sexed couples to "marry" would be defying the religious sanctity of the meaning of the word, marriage.

Webster's Dictionary recently has defined the word marriage as the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law and as the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage. So using the such definitions of the word marriage is in anyway a religious practice? Granted that the performance of marriage is often taken place at a church, temple, or similar location with a pastor, priest, or rabbi conducting such ceremony does not conclude that the act of marriage in itself is a religious act.

I would now like to go upon the assumption that marriage would be indeed a religious performance. If recognizing that the joining of a man and a woman is a religious performance, this would violate both the seperation of "Church and State" and would violate the fourteenth "Equality for All" amendment. Violates the seperation of church and state because law is recognizing a religious practice and to benefit only such people that belief in such practices. marriage would then also violate the fourteenth amendment of the United States Constitution because granting practices to only a certain group of people is forbidden by this amendment. Equal protection under the law would pertain to couples of a man and woman, a man and man, and a woman and woman.

If the religous groups would like to keep the word marriage as a religious ceremony, the United States government, could not continue to offer such benefits to only couples consisting of a man and a woman and not violate the fourteenth amendment. Therefore my idea for the United States Government is to redefine the word marriage to the word union. A union would then take the definition of a marriage, however would not have the religious backgrounds to it. A union could consist of one man and one woman, two men, or two women of consensual age and the ability to be in a contractual relationship. Benefits of all couples would be teh same as the term marriage, and would be recognized by all federal and state laws. States with such bans on such same-sexed unions would be in violation of the fourteenth ammendment of the United States federal constitution. marriage would then be defined to be "a union ceremony that is conducted under the beliefs of a religion." Unions may be conducted in churches if such churches wish to perform such ceremony, however could not be required to perform such union based upon the seperation of church and state. Mayors and other state officials could not refuse to perform a union because of thier personal religion, because of the governmental position that they hold. They are sworn to uphold the constitution of both thier state and of the federal constitution and granted such powers of performing unions, they would not be able to discriminate against the couples they wish to unionize.

I believe this would benefit everyone as the religious groups can keep the definition of thier ceremony and the "sanctity" or lack thereof to the religion of which they hold onto. Would benefit the couples of hundreds of same-sexed and straight couples and allow them the same benefits without the seclusion of any groups of citizens. Would also benefit the economy in which has been repressed and the government would make more money on the taxes they get from "unionized" couples. Instead of worry about just yourself, let's actually show every other nation out there that we care for ALL of our own citizens.

On a side note within the same subject, the creation of unions to replace the now defined term of marriage would extend to the United States Military and would allow all citizens the same requirements of entry without having the concern of being discriminated against because of thier sexuailty. Within the same protection given to every and all citizens of the United States of America![i][/i] [b]*End Paper*

So this goes back to how does same-sexed marriages affect your life? Does same-sexed marriages really threaten the values of straight marriage? How would a gay couple's marriage affect that of an opposite sexed marriage?

This is a very touchy subject for some folks however I want to be clear when I say I love all people and can see how anyone can be decieved by the world and its fallacies. I respect all people until they press change especially wrong change into the view of children and all of society.

The point is there has to be limits. The same law that protects an underage child from being exploited should be the same law that protects marriage between a man and a women. If we are now allowed to marry men to men and women to women then where does the line stop. Should we also allow 5 women to marry one man or 2 women to adopt a child or a man to marry lets say his dog.

Eternal principles should not sway in the balance of whats popular. The homosexual crowd only represents maybe 2% of the population so its not even popular really. It is a shame when we go from being in the closet and ashamed properly of the things we do wrong to a world of no shame and anything goes and outright proclaiming I'm proud to be doing something thats shameful. It is like calling light darkness and darkness light. You would not know either one unless someone told you what they meant. Marriage does not mean anything but 2 souls male and female melted together to become one flesh before the God who designed it and everything else too. The paper liscense has nothing to do with marriage. It is of the Heart.

Now lets say God or whoever you think it is that made the earth, called this planet "Earth" and we decided to name it Pluto, that does not change the fact that we still live on earth. The same is marriage or any rule for that matter. God's principles are designed to protect us and give us a stable way to live. They are not to restrict us and keep us from good things. It is like a father grabbing a child out of the road so they do not get hit by the car that is coming.

Below are some truths that should be plainsight:

For the bible-believing Christian, there can be no doubt that homosexuality is a grievous sin in the sight of God. The awful catalogue in the first chapter of Romans of the sins practiced by the ancient pagan world began with this sin:

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another: men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
-Romans 1:26,27 (KJV)

The term "sodomy," named after the inhabitants of Sodom whose homosexual perversions caused God to rain fire and brimstone on their city in the days of Abraham (Genesis 19:4,5,12,24), has for thousands of years been synonymous with this unique form of ungodliness. That it is basically a sin of rebellion against God is evident from the above passage in Romans.
The "cause" for which God "gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves" was that they had decided to "worship and serve creation more than the Creator" (Romans 1:24-25 - KJV).

Because such behavior is essentially animalistic, rather than human, sodomites are actually called "dogs" in the Bible. Note the strong prohibition in the Old Testament theocracy established under Moses.
"There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel. Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the Lord thy God for any vow: for even both these are an abomination unto the Lord thy God."
-Deuteronomy 23:17,18 (KJV)

We can be sure that, if these practices were abominations to God then, He has not changed His opinion about them today.
The same terminology appears in the description of the holy city in the last chapter of the Bible.
Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
-Revelation 22:14-15 (KJV)

Thus, sodomites--like sorcerers, whoremongers (same word as "fornicators"), murderers, idolaters and lovers of lies--should undoubtedly also be excluded from church fellowship. If such a person, professing to be a Christian, persists in his sin, he should be put out of the church, like the one who had committed fornication with his stepmother (I Corinthians 5:1).

Now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner, with such an one no not to eat… Therefore, put away from yourselves that wicked person.
-I Corinthians 5:11, 13 (KJV)

Homosexuality, like all other types of fornication, has no place in the family of God. Regardless of what modern promoters of "gay liberation" might wish to believe, sexual perversions are not inherited genetically but rather are learned behaviors and willful sins. Like alcoholism and other such sins of the flesh, they may become very difficult to give up for those who have been enslaved by them, but God is able to give deliverance to any who sincerely desire true freedom and salvation.

To "straight" Christians in the church, however, the familiar old admonition to "hate the sin, but love the sinner" surely applies in such cases. Homosexuals, long accustomed to being looked upon with disgust by most people, are understandably anxious for acceptance by society. Nevertheless, they must not be encouraged to continue in their wickedness, for it may well cost them their eternal souls. Instead, they need to be "loved into the kingdom," being delivered first of all from their rebellion against God, then to Christ for salvation and cleansing.

Notice Paul's testimony concerning the very real possibility of such deliverance:
Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, …shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
-I Corinthians 6:9-11 (KJV)

When there is true repentance and the sin is forsaken, then such a person should be lovingly received into the fellowship of believers (or back into that fellowship, if previously excommunicated), like any other repentant and believing sinner. This is the example given in the case of the incestuous Corinthian:
Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many. So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. Wherefore I beseech you that you would confirm your love toward him.
-II Corinthians 2:6-8 (KJV)

In spite of great pressure today from humanists and other liberals to get homosexuality recognized as an acceptable--if not even preferable--life style, the Bible makes it plain that it is really unnatural and animalistic wickedness that must be rejected by true Christians.
At the same time, we cannot forget that Christ died for their sins, as well as ours. They are still objects of His sacrificial love, and we should seek earnestly to bring them to Him for cleansing and deliverance.

Love is all powerful and God loves. If he is for you who can be against you? For ye are saved by grace and that not of yourselves lest anyman should boast.
The goodness of God leads a man to repentance. -Romans 2:4 (MKJV)

Very Interesting prespective and I respect that. I am not stating it is right or wrong, I am just not going to tell someone else how to live. I would not go and tell a christian group that they HAVE to live thier life a certain way. I don't feel that they should be doing that to other people, no matter if it is thier sexuality, race, or religious preference.

As for the man to marry his dog statement, the part of consent would have to be put into play here. Can your dog talk or write? If they can, I want to meet them, but as for my pets that I have had in the past, none of them would be able to fulfill the consent and contract signing part of that, so I don't know why people even bring this up as an option for them to try? Personally, I find that idea completely sick. That would be like trying to mix the species of dogs and cats together...as far as i know they instinctively know to breed with thier own species...humans should be the same way, whether they do that with the male or female end of that, it is still the same species.

On the side note of the Bible, it states that you should be stoned for wearing a clothing of mixed threads...almost nothing nowdays are made of one type of thread. Or shall my daughter have the right to be sold into slavery. If people want to pick and choose one or two things out of the larger book, what make it wrong that another group can't pick and choose other things to thier liking. I am just baffled at the fact that there are so many different contridictions out there and that people become bias and not want to treat everything else as fair game. To use one as fact, shall remain to use the rest as fact! The only thing I can state for a fact is that God would have wanted us to love each other as we would want to be loved, and that denying any person the right to love someone else, would be going against the main idea of what God stands for.

The part about the dog was just an example of "what is the limit?". The point is we make up a constitution for the constitution for the constitution. Physical laws and moral laws both exist for our good. As I stated before I do not go around bashing them its just they are effectively using their money around to push political forces to accept things that undermine and compromise the heterosexual community. The last thing we want to do here is convice homosexuals there is no repercussion for them pushing the flawed lifestyle as if it were normal on to our children and seeding in them the misconception that it is ok and God does not care.

The handwritten Mosaic laws were done away with as Christ fulfilled the law. The part about being stoned is put away by the fulfilling of the law that came from Jesus death. The immutable 10 commandments are eternal laws setup from Gods own heart and will never be done away with. Thou shalt not kill yesterday means the same as thou shalt not kill today as do the other 9 commandments. Will we always follow them in this life, not hardly. That is why Christ took the penalty for us and saved us by grace.

I understand that comment was to illustrate what limits there has to be, but i don't know very many people that woke up one day deciding to be straight or gay. I didn't wake up this morning choosing who I was attracted to, and I don't believe that anyone else, gay or straight, has that same ability. I believe that a group that is effectively pushing into political forces is the churches. As the constitution states now, that there HAS to be a seperation of church and state. This meaning that the church should not have any influence or control over the laws that are or were made. The United States was founded based upon the repression of religious freedom from Great Britian. We were forced to believe something we did not under the Parlimental rule, and as a new nation we founded that everyone has the right to live thier life for themselves for the benefit of the good. How is it that churches now want to make rules and/or laws that will dictacte how someone should live when that was what this country was first trying to oppose.

How does a gay couples relationship affect a straight couples relationship? Does one straight person's relationship affect the way your relationship is handled? I don't believe so. In the long run, we need to stop hating everyone. This same issue came up with interracial marriages and everyone found that it was wrong and that it was immoral, and the same arguements that the churchs and homophobic people are using today, are the same responses that were repeated in history not very long ago with people of different colored skin wanting to be in a relationship together. The church wants everyone to accept God and Jesus as thier personal savoir, but how can people accept someone as thier personal savoir if the people that are trying to open thier eyes up are the same people that are out there hating them? This would be like me stating that all blondes are dumb and therefore should have no positions of power in any form of government. How does the fact that this person is blonde, affect how my life changes? In fact, if gay marriages were allowed, the government would actually see MORE money from the taxes that those couples would have to pay under the "marriage penalty" that straight people now have to pay.

I may not like something, but if it does not affect my way of life, what is to say that it is wrong? We are made in God's image and if gay or straight people were born the way they are, then in turn we shall be accepted in the same form when we reach the pearly gates. If it is stated that God is male, and only those that are in his image, would then have to be male. Same if God was female, would all males be doomed to the burning pits of hell? If God was white, black, asian, arabic....would only that race be allowed in heaven. God made us in his (or her) image and is accepted for the way we are born. Whether that is white, black, gay, straight, smart or dumb....hate is something that controls people on Earth, and is not the path to heaven.

I do not want this to become a flame war or cause any resentment so please understand that we just disagree on a few things and we could probably debate all year. I love to debate but not if someone gets offended so let me know if you are ok with debating and not arguing.

I totally agree with you on the fact that God loves us and is able to save us regardless of what is done. There is alot in the post that I do not agree with like people are born gay and that it is to be compared with being a blonde or what color you are. That would suggest that their is a Gay gene or something and scientist have been trying for years to find it and cannot because it does not exist. Blonde or tall does exist and sexual preference gene does not exist because it is made up of choices likes and dislikes according to what you come to believe by the influences around you. As another has put it "No one is born liking blue, enjoying pizza, or collecting baseball cards". It is all choices made up by influence as is your sexual choice. You are however born female or male that is not a choice of influence but sexual prefenence is.

The hate thing is really over-rated. I mean come on the only hate I see is the Homosexual advance hating the fact the bible speaks loudly against it. We need to stop and think there may be a reason God severely hates it. Yes it is true there is a difference between killing someone and telling a lie. Sin does have its various degrees altough all sins are serious.

As one person put it "Homosexual activists have redefined any opposition to homosexuality as 'hate speech.' Laws already criminalize speech that incites violence. It's easy to imagine a scenario in which any incident involving a homosexual can be blamed on people who have publicly opposed homosexual activism." I offers special protection to specific class of people, the legislation "violates the Equal Protection Clause of the U.S. Constitution,". Earlier this year in Sweden, which also has strict hate-crimes laws, a pastor was arrested at his church after he began reading Bible verses condemning homosexuality.

This also means that the laws we have now are not enough and gives special protection to Gay people and crime done against your grandmother will mean far less then a crime done to a gay guy. That is absurd to say one is more important then the other that is exactly what the gay radicals want to happen, it is insane. We do not need more laws:(

Some states have included sexual orientation in their state hate-crimes laws. Last month, California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed into law a bill expanding that state's statute to include not only homosexuals and transgendered people but also people who merely associate with those who are part of a protected class.
This is a rediculous gay radical tactic to stop any opposition from saying anything to protect their kids from making wrong decisions in thier sexual relationships and making sure that they have power over speaking out against it.

This is not the first time this has all happened I guess history repeats itself when we get away from doing what is beneficial for our lives. I just hope America does not reject God as a whole becuase this small crowd is blinding what we know as true freedom and happiness and the joy of the holy spirit. I am far from perfect but I am trying my darndest to make sure I do not throw away a great relationship with the person who made me.

I agree we disagree! I like debating, and I like to understand where other people come from. I am also the type of person that will debate with you, knowing you could be right, but wanting to make sure you know your right and why you believe you are.

Funny thing our choices and perspectives...to sit there and deeply look at to why we like our favorite color (for example). I can't tell you why I grew up liking the color blue. Loved deep blue and dark greens. Possibly things affected my thoughts or response to them as a child, but to sit and watch children go after something they like. Babies, though with intellegence growing, does not have the same capabilities to decide things like that. Myself, can not think back and remember making the choice back then that I loved the color blue. To agree with you now though, my favorite color is purple, and that is my choice to have changed from what I liked so much and changed to be now a different color. Can you recall the time, without any influences or instructions (such as the Bible, parents, friends, etc) that you made the comprehended decision to be straight or gay? Can you tell me exactly when you made that critical choice or are straight people straight just because that is what history has programed everyone to think as the normal? Christianity in its form has only been around for just over 2000 years, if we are to look back prior to this period when the church and the form of Christianity has come together to start its prodominate power, what is to say that the normal wasn't something else? So much gets lost in the translation from the original to the next generations. Stories start to add, or delete certain things and other things change depending on the prespective of who is reading, comprehending and translating it. That is why today there is so many versions of the Bible. Yet the "King James" version is directed to be the "closest" interpretation of the original scriptures...it was yet again MAN that has written and translated these books. Rumored of scriptures that have been written by Jesus himself were electively left out of the Bible, the book that praises and worships a man, yet his own gospels were not included??? Where would it be that these scriptures were not included, when these words would have been the most powerful words stated, more than any other man that has written a gospel?

Hate laws are there to protect. Not only are they there to protect the gay community, but there are also hate laws that protect other minority groups which has been retaliated against. I do believe that there are some things nowdays that are way overboard and that should only be common sense no matter who the person is, but there are people that think the old laws don't apply to them, so now we create new laws that both hinder and protect the same. You are right, we do not need more laws concerning this...but with this same statement being stated, christian radicals are attempting to create more laws forbidding the rights of other people in this country, including the gays and other minorities. Marriage is offered only to a specific group of people, and under the "Equal Protection for All" amendment, this in itself is deemed unconstitutional.

To sit and listen to many, many teenagers and young adults (even some older) have to sit there and tell you thier stories on how it was for them to try and be "normal" because that is what everyone wants of them. To have them describe how they are ridiculed for something they have continuously tried to change, and some that have even committed suicide over (again another high law in the Bible that is forbidden) because they would rather be dead than to be hated by people over something they can't change, makes me wonder if this is what God has forseen or is this the plan that God wanted these people to take. What lessons can be learned when someone rathers themselves to be dead than to have to deal with the hate and ridicule that is thrown at them because they have no where else that people can accept them. More teenagers die at the hands of suicide because they are afraid to come out and be hated, than any other reason. Suicide ranks number three in the cause of deaths for those between the ages of 15-24. Suicide ranks second in those that are of college age. There are 4 men that commit suicide to every 1 female. Listed that one in every 10 people are gay. With statistics like this, can you really state that many people want to make the choice to be casted as outsiders and hated against?

Judge not, lest ye be judged (Matthew 7:1), it is not our place to judge the actions or activities of others. That is for God to do at the time of the second coming. Judging others shall only cause you to be guilty in the eyes of God. God's greatest commandment, John 13:34-35 (KJV), "A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another, as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."

Revelations 22:18-21 : "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen." With this ALL things in the Bible shall be followed. Not just one or the other or edited as thou seem fit. The addition or removal of anything in this book, shall be against God's will. If you were determined to conclude one item in the book as fact, all items must be concluded as fact and that all items must be followed to accordingly. (contridictions within the bible, is a whole other subject)


Philippians 4:13 - "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheth me"